Ex Catholics! (The Sad story of ex-Catholics who did not know their faith)

Ex-Catholics are among the people who make me the most sad. This is because they have left the Catholic Church, which is the one true Church that Jesus started, and the reality is that most every one of them leave for emotional and not intellectual reasons. In other words, they are either duped by the first religion that comes to their door that points out the bible and seems plausible, or just walk away all together. The truth is that most never performed a deep study before leaving to see if what they were walking away from was true. (If you would like to watch our YouTube video on this instead, click here).

Ex-Catholics Never Knew their Faith

Most ex-Catholics have not even read a single book from the Catholic Church, or from any Catholic for that matter which explains the faith. So, how would they know their own religion? For this reason, ex-Catholics become anti-Catholics because they then receive their information about Catholicism from other anti-Catholic sources who themselves do not understand the Catholic religion.

From decades of experience, most Anti-Catholics know nothing about Catholicism or Catholic history, and worse, they present countless accusations that are not true in the first place. These are known as straw man arguments. Consequently, when Ex-Catholics leave the Church, some go and “study the faith” but from non-Catholic sources who themselves have never read a single Catholic book and remain ignorant as to what Catholics really believe.

Archbishop Fulton Sheen once stated: “There are not a handful of people in America who hate the Catholic Church, but there are millions who hate what they mistakenly believe is the Catholic Church.”

When ex-Catholics and anti-Catholics are asked, “How many books have you read that were written by a Catholic from beginning to end?” So far, almost 100% of the time, they have not read even a single book that explains the Catholic faith.

Conversely, I could offer many books that I have read on anti-Catholicism, books that are against the Catholic faith from other religions. I have studied both sides and know the arguments well. Ex-Catholics think they know the Catholic faith well, and yet cannot even demonstrate a basic understanding of Catholic doctrine. Worse, they make outlandish claims that Catholics don’t even come close to believing.

That is because anti-Catholics who have a vendetta do not study both sides. They appear to be afraid of truth. They will come up with things like, “Catholics worship Mary, and I used to be a Catholic so I know.” The problem is, they don’t know. I always ask, “Where does the Catholic Church teach her people to worship Mary? Show me just one place from an official Catholic source, or the official Catechism of the Catholic Church.”

For those who don’t know, the Catechism contains what Catholics believe. It is like an encyclopedia of Catholic beliefs. It also shows where we get our beliefs from the Bible and from history. So, show me one place in this official source where it teaches Catholics to worship Mary. Anyone who dares to try will discover the opposite. In paragraphs 2084 and 2112 of the Catechism, it states that we are supposed to worship God alone.

There is no God except for God. Mary is not a God but a mere human, and all idolatry is condemned by the Catholic Church. If a Catholic does worship Mary, then they are going against their own religion and need to be reproved.

Catholics practice sorcery! Common Ex-Catholic and anti-Catholic Myths

“Did you know that for Catholics, Mary is the fourth person of the Trinity? She is a goddess!! Did you know that Catholics actually worship the Pope? He tells them what to do in everything. Did you know that Catholics believe in many gods because they pray to Saints. It’s Polytheism!! Did you know that Catholics practice witchcraft and sorcery?

Ex-Catholics make all sorts of crazy and outlandish claims that they would be embarrassed about if they did any sort of real research. Many ex-Catholics will assert, “I was a Catholic. I was a Catholic for 20 years and I went to Catholic school and made my Sacraments, and so I know the Catholic faith!”

Yet, they have the audacity to claim that Catholics worship Mary, the Saints, statues, and other elementary mistakes. Clearly, they knew nothing of their faith before they walked away. They never thought to fact-check or verify the things they learn. Many ex-Catholics have such a vendetta for the Church, that they become gullible and believe anything they are told without question. Worse, they want these claims to be true to justify their exit.

There is no teaching about worshipping Mary as God, or that she is on par with Jesus, or anything of the sort anywhere in 2,000 years of Catholic history. Here are a couple actual comments from my YouTube channel, from Ex-Catholics. I won’t mention their names but you can see how outlandish some of their claims are:

“Catholics pray to their gods, not to God. Their prayers are not answered. The Mary of the Roman Catholic Church is a combination of pagan goddesses merged into one and named Mary by the early church. The ‘saints’ are demons. When Catholics pray the Our Father, they don’t believe that He is the only one that answers prayers and they don’t believe that Jesus Christ is the only mediator. They believe that Mary as Jesus’ mother has the authority to give her Son orders and he will always obey her.”

Give her Son orders, wow! Where did the Church ever teach that? The Catholic Church has taught for 2000 years that there is only one God! Therefore, we do not pray to other gods. It would be helpful to see some information proving this assertion of theirs, even one quote. Yet, they never offer evidence or back up their false claims.

It would also be interesting to know how saints are “demons” since Saints in heaven are just ordinary people like you and me who followed Jesus and lived lives of holiness. The Bible states that all Christians are saints (Romans 1:7, for example). The Catholic Church also considers everyone in heaven a saint. For this person to say that all saints (everyone in heaven and all who are part of the Christian church), are demons is really fallacious and quite the sort of extremism we see from anti-Catholics.

Many times it derives from emotional anger and hurt which is why they can be obnoxious, insulting, rude, and condemnatory. It’s raw emotion. It’s hurt. It’s guilt. It’s many things, but it’s not truth. This is why, no matter how in your face ex-Catholics can be, we need to love them with the love of Jesus and show Christ-like patience

Proof in the Pudding!

Anyone who ventures to open the Catechism will find that it states that only God is God, and the Source of everything, even answered prayers. Catholics ask the Saints in heaven to pray for us, just as we ask each other to pray for us.

Ex-Catholics may retort that, “Saints are dead, and you Catholics are just talking to dead people. They cannot hear you or do anything.” The astute Catholic will reply saying, “Actually the Bible shows that the Saints in heaven are alive, and that they are in Heaven.”

Jesus Himself spoke with two “dead people,” Moses and Elijah, in Matthew chapter 17. This is because they’re not dead, but alive in heaven and alive in Christ! God said in the Bible that He is “not the God of the living the dead but of the living.” Therefore, when we die we are not rotting in the graves without any consciousness. That is such an Old Testament and Jewish worldview. Check out Revelations 6. It shows people in Heaven under the altar. Guess what? They are not only alive, but they are talking to Jesus. Moreover, they are conscious and remember what happened to them on earth. Ultimately Christians believe that because Christ died and rose again, and opened the doors to heaven, we may go to Heaven when we die.

Addressing Catholic praying to a pagan goddess is like trying to defend why a Triangle has 5 sides. It’s just so far from true, it need not be entertained. Catholics do not believe Mary to be a goddess. Period.

Saved by Faith Alone?

Here is one more ex-Catholic response we have received on our YouTube channel:

“Catholics are going to Hell. The Bible is absolutely clear that we are saved by faith. No amount of ‘good works’ (including giving to the poor, attending church services, praying to Mary or the saints, rosary beads, candles, confession, the sacraments, and numerous other rituals demanded by the Roman Catholic authorities) will satisfy the wrath of God against sinners. These will not save you poor Catholics. Furthermore, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it teaches that eternal life is attained by faith, baptism, and the commandments.”

And then they go on to say how all of this is false.

A rare ex-Catholic who has looked in the Catechism! This ex-Catholic condemns the Catholic Church for believing that Baptism and following the commandments are a necessary part of the salvation process. The only trouble is that it’s what the Bible states too.

1 John  2:3-4 says that we are saved by following the commandments, and anyone who doesn’t is a liar who does not follow Jesus. In fact, Jesus says the exact same thing in the book of Matthew. Someone comes up to Jesus and says, “Good Master, what must I do to be saved?” And Jesus said, “Follow the commandments.” So, in order to be saved, we not only must have faith, but must also follow the commandments.

The scriptures are pretty clear that baptism saves you. See 1 Peter 3:21 where it specifically states that “baptism now saves you.” Not that baptism itself saves, but Jesus and his body and blood saves us through baptism. This is why Mark 16:16 also says that “he who believes and is baptized will be saved.” Romans 6:1-11 discusses being born again through baptism, which is exactly what John 3:5 talks about when it mentions being born again by “water and the Spirit.”

These are the things that Catholics did not know before they left the faith.

Next, when this Ex-Catholic claims that Catholics try to do works to get to heaven, that is untrue. The Catholic Church teaches that we are saved by faith, but it’s not an intellectual faith only (even the Devil has that); it’s a faith that works, which is exactly what James says in all of chapter 2 of his Epistle.

Lastly, this ex-Catholic mentions Rosary beads and candles and many other things that are all straw man arguments. For example, no Catholic believes that candles save them. Where did this information come from?

The Rosary is a prayer, and prayer is useful as Scripture teaches. This person also mentioned that Confession won’t save you. Except that Jesus started Confession and gave men the authority to forgive sins in His name (John 20:21-23). If you would like to see our shorter video on this topic, click here.

Many things this ex-Catholic listed that “save us” does not actually save us, and Catholics already believe that. Only Jesus saves! But, many of these things can benefit us in our faith, like praying the rosary, which is a meditation on the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Here is the video on that if you would like a deeper understanding of why Catholics pray the rosary.

Ex Catholics need to learn the truth … and live in truth!

These are just some of the many, many things we hear from Ex-Catholics, but we pray for each and every one of them a lot – especially since so many ex-Catholics end up returning to the Catholic faith and coming home to the fullness of truth!

If you are an Ex-Catholic, I would beseech you to just read one Catholic book. I have many, but I recommend one to begin with: Catholicism and Fundamentalism: The Attack on Romanism by Bible Christians. It is a good comparison as to what anti-Catholics claim and then what Catholics actually believe.

If God is a God of truth (which He is), then for ex-Catholics to spread lies and half-truths about the Catholic faith is not living in truth or in Christ. It is best for someone to first find the actual truth in regard to Catholic beliefs and then show why they disagree rather than just emotionally vomiting that all Catholics are going to hell, are all evil, idiots, brain dead, the Whore of Babylon, and so much more.

Insults cannot replace mature, intellectual arguments.

That is not the way Jesus lived or would wish us to live. He desires for us to be kind, loving, and gentle. So, I beseech you, check out the Catholic faith for real. If you have any questions, thoughts, or comments, feel free to put them in the comments section below.

Thanks for reading and God bless you!

See the recommended reading below…

  1. **”Catholicism and Fundamentalism: Attacks on “Romanism” by “Bible Christians.” (One of the BEST books on defending the Catholic faith against Protestants and anti-Catholics. A classic and must read). – https://goo.gl/fNxXuB
  2. **“Pope Fiction: Answers to 30 Myths & Misconceptions About the Papacy” by Patrick Madrid. https://amzn.to/2BWbPn1
  3. “Seven Lies about Catholic History: infamous myths about the church’s past and how to answer them” by Diane Moczar. https://amzn.to/2wIlcRt
  4. **Surprised by Truth! (11 Converts to the Catholic Church, their stories and their biblical, historical, and personal reasons why. A GREAT read!) – https://goo.gl/1gvgAM
  5. “A biblical defense of Catholicism” by Dave Armstrong. https://amzn.to/2Q6XI1x
  6. Search and Rescue: How to bring your family and friends back – or back into – the Catholic church” by Patrick Madrid. https://amzn.to/2NLUi2z
  7. **“By what authority? An evangelical discovers Catholic Tradition” by Mark Shea. https://amzn.to/2wF1Spe
  8. **“Born Fundamentalist, Born Again Catholic” by David Currie. https://amzn.to/2LzmSly
  9. “The Case for Catholicism – Answers to classic and contemporary objections.” (This is the most up-to-date, comprehensive, and thorough defense of the Catholic Church against Protestant objections in print). – https://goo.gl/RwtpWy

About Bryan Mercier

Bryan Mercier is a professional Catholic speaker, retreat leader, author, YouTuber, and a Catholic apologist who has been teaching and preaching for almost two decades. He has also been aired on TV and radio in different states, including Relevant Radio, Ave Maria Radio, Sirius XM Satellite, and EWTN. He is the founder of "Catholic Truth," a non-profit dedicated to the New Evangelization and helping Catholics to know, love, and live their faith with purpose and passion each day!
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27 Responses to Ex Catholics! (The Sad story of ex-Catholics who did not know their faith)

  1. Peter says:

    Hello CatholicBryan,

    You say: “….the reality is that most every one of them leave for emotional and not intellectual reasons.”

    That is a very sweeping statement! How many ex-Catholics have you actually spoken to and asked their reasons for leaving? Please give us some statistics. I certainly did not leave for emotional reasons!

    You say: ” The truth is that most never performed a deep study before leaving to see if what they were walking away from was true. Most ex-Catholics have not even read a single book from the Catholic Church, or from any Catholic for that matter which explains the faith.”

    Not true-I have read the:

    1) Catechism of the Catholic Church, St Pauls, Official 1st Edition for Australia & NZ, 3rd printing, April 1998.

    2) The New St Joseph Baltimore Catechism N0.2 Catholic Book Publishing Co, NY

    3) The Canons & Decrees of the Council of Trent, Rev. H.J. Schroeder, TAN Books 1978

    4) This is The Faith: A COMPLETE Explanation of the Catholic Faith by Canon Francis Ripley, 3rd Ed, TAN BOOKS

    5) The Faith of Our Fathers by Cardinal Gibbons, 59th Ed, John Murphy Co.,1902

    6) The Q & A Catholic Catechism by J.A Hardon, Society of Jesuits, 1981

    7) Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Dr. Ludwig Ott, 1960, TAN Books

    So, no I certainly did not leave for “emotional” reasons!

    You say: “I always ask, “Where does the Catholic Church teach her people to worship Mary? Show me just one place from an official Catholic source, or the official Catechism of the Catholic Church.”

    Here you go: The Glories of Mary by St Alphonsus Liguori a Doctor of the Roman Catholic Church-if anyone can read this book and say the good doctor is not promulgating worship of Mary, they are either deluded or dishonest, or more than likely both.

    And this: “The Church’s devotion to the BV is intrinsic to Christian WORSHIP” para. #971, Catechism of the Catholic Church.

    Please don’t give me the explanation of “you don’t understand Latria and Hyperdulia.” Yes I do, and furthermore despite what you may say or the “official” teaching of the Church maybe, the actions and words of Roman Catholic devotees to Mary paints a completely different picture, Oh I forgot to mention I have also read, Legio Mariae, The Official Handbook of the Legion of Mary!

    I trust you will now amend your article/YouTube video accordingly stating you have now come across at least ONE ex-Catholic who didn’t leave because of “emotional” reasons-Thanks.

  2. Peter says:


    You may wish to look into why ex-priests Bart Brewer and Richard Bennett left the Roman Catholic Church, if you do, I believe you will find it wasn’t because of “emotional” reasons.

  3. I’m very familiar with them, and they have countless errors and mistakes, and just plain pre-concieved bias.’ I’ve refuted Brewer’s stuff many times, and so have many others. I feel bad for him. Ditto Bennett. God bless.

  4. Peter says:

    You responded to my addendum but not to my comments!

  5. I’m glad that you were studied before you left, although I’m not fully convinced you left for intellectual reasons and not emotional ones. Most people, even studied people, often leave for emotional reasons. I’m not saying you did, I’m just saying that is a reality. Many times they don’t want to follow a certain rule that the church has, or that God has which the church upholds. Others don’t like authority. Others have a certain sin or action they want to do which would require them changing their lifestyle. Others do not like the moral teachings of the Church (from God). There are many reasons. The bottom line is that what I said is true, most people who leave, leave for emotional reasons. Even if there are a few here or there that don’t, the majority do. As opposed to people who come into the Catholic Church, often come in because they realize is the one church Jesus started and it’s the fullness of truth. So many Baptist and Protestant pastors, scholars, heads of seminaries, and others are flooding into the Catholic Church because they found that is true.

    In regard to worship, your comment didn’t really prove anything. St. Alphonsus look or is not an official source, not remotely. First, it was a spiritual work and not a theological one. Second, people like St. Alphonsus and St. Louis to Monfort speak in very flowery language which can sound like Mary worship but is definitely not. St. Louis to Monfort speaks so highly of the Blessed Virgin Mary like St. Alphonsus does, but he starts his book by saying that Mary is less than and atom compared to Christ, or rather, she is nothing at all compared to his infinite majesty was eternal and omnipotent. And he goes on to say that Christ has not, it does not, and has never needed Mary in any way. But that he chose to use her for his plans that he alone knows. So he says that Mary is absolutely nothing and less than nothing compared to Christ. From this, we can know that everything and anything else he says is not in a way of worship and has to be understood in that context. The same thing with St. Alphonsus. Both of them have a proper Christology and understanding of Christ is God. And they both understand that anything Mary has and any greatness she has is because of what Christ has done in her and threw her. It’s all Christ’s power. It’s all Christ’s grace. It’s all Christ’s mercy. It’s nothing of her own. Not an ounce of that is her own. It’s all Christ, and reflects back to him in his infinite power and greatness. (Lastly, the quote you quoted from the catechism says nothing about worshiping Mary. you are reading into things that aren’t there my friend.)

    I trust and hope you will have a little humility and admit that you are wrong and that you are forcing something on the Catholic Church that the Catholic Church doesn’t actually teach. Especially since the Catholic Church condemns idolatry over and over again and countless writings. And you only one vague official source taken out of context and which does not come close to proving Mary worship or proving your point.

  6. Peter says:

    I am still waiting for some statistical proof that MOST people leave the RCC because of “emotional reasons” – just because you say so doesn’t mean it is so!
    I have testimonies of seventy (70) who left because of theological reasons ALONE!

    So two (St Alphonsus Ligouri and St Louis de Montfort) “saints” and a one of them a “doctor”of the Roman Catholic Church are not reliable sources on Mariology?

    You say: ” people like St. Alphonsus and St. Louis to Monfort….”

    Hang on there, what do you mean by “people like”? They are not just “people” they are both SAINTS according to your church and highly revered at that.

    You say:”… speak in very flowery language which can SOUND like MARY WORSHIP but is definitely not”

    Well, if it barks like a dog I guess it is DEFINITELY NOT!

    Let me give the full quote then from the CCC:

    971 “All generations will call me blessed”: “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is INTRINSIC to CHRITIAN WORSHIP.” The Church rightly honors “the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of ‘Mother of God,’ to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs…. This very special devotion … differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration.” The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an “epitome of the whole Gospel,” express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.

    You can huff and puff about Latria, Hyperdulia and Dulia, but at the end of the day it’s all the same-WORSHIP!

    I trust and hope you will have a little humility and admit that you are wrong.

  7. You just disproved your own point by quoting that passage in context. Thank you for providing the context. The passage specifically says that the church “honors” [not worships] Mary. It’s that simple, end of story. I think you are the one who needs a little humility my friend. God bless.

  8. Wow, 70 whole people!! I seriously doubt they left for theological reasons, and I seriously doubt that they are correct in their theological analysis. If it’s anything like yours, it’s a farce.

  9. Amelia says:

    You’re ridiculously biased. One true church? 😀 Sure… Even Peter had a wife. Where’s the pope’s wife? 😛 He is not even allowed to have one.
    Jesus never said women should be ashamed for their gender. So why are there Catholic saints who say so? Or that they can’t go to Heaven without transforming into males?
    And if it is so, how can you believe Mary came back? He would be a guy, unrecognizable 😛
    Oh and Jesus was actually present and intact at the last supper, so nobody literally ate him.
    Never mind though, if you pay like Tetzel did, you’ll buy salvation. The first and one and true…

  10. I think you are a little confused. Christians have never taught that you have to become a male to get into heaven. That teaching is from the Gnostics who were not Christians and did not follow Jesus. So that is a irrelevant point. Second, yes, the Catholic Church is the only true church because it was started by Jesus himself. This means that every other church in the world is man-made. Look at any religion out there and you can find the man who started it, or woman, the year, the place, and the fact that all of them contradict each other. Only the Catholic Church goes back 2000 years.

  11. Lastly, Jesus and Paul in the Bible recommended people to be celibate and give their lives to God and the kingdom. In other words not get married. So the Catholic Church chose to go that route with priests, bishops, and popes so they could serve God better. Yes Peter had a wife, but the Bible doesn’t say that priests have to have a wife. In fact both Jesus and Paul prefer celibacy. Check out Matthew 19 and 1 Corinthians 7. God bless.

  12. Peter says:

    Bryan Mercier said: Re St Alphonsus Ligouri and St Louis de Montfort:

    “… speak in very flowery language which can SOUND like MARY WORSHIP but is definitely not”

    I repeat, if it looks like a dog, smells like a dog and barks like a dog it DEFINITELY IS NOT!

    I agree-END OF STORY!

  13. Peter – You conveniently ignored the clear evidence to hold on to your untenable position and your personal bias. I already proved, and so did you, from the Catholic Church’s own writings that the Catholic Church does not teach or promote Mary worship or worship of anything other than God. The church specifically stated in her own words that we honor Mary and worship God. That’s the end of the story. If you have any humility at all or honesty before God, you would admit you are mistaken on this.

  14. peter says:

    I don’t mean to be rude but do you have difficulty with reading and comprehension?

    “The Church’s devotion to the Blessed Virgin is INTRINSIC to CHRISTIAN WORSHIP”.

    Devotion and honour to Mary are part and parcel of Roman Catholic “Christian” WORSHIP! That’s what your catechism states!

    Devotion and honour=Worship

    Carrying statues of Mary in processions, bowing and kissing her, adorning her with crowns of flowers, praying to her…..etc -These actions speak for themselves!

    I’m still waiting for statistical proof that most ex-Catholics leave because of emotional reasons.
    Please give me some numbers and testimonies!

  15. Peter – I think you have a hard time comprehending That the Catholic Church says they worship God and honor Mary. Devotion and honor do not equal worship. Not even close. The Bible says in Genesis 12 to honor those people that God himself honors. So I suppose that we worship everyone God tells us to honor. That doesn’t even make sense. We honor baseball players, people at galas, people who do humanitarian work, and more. I suppose we worship them to? You are not even being reasonable. it says that it’s intrinsic to Christian worship, not that we worship Mary. There is a difference. We worship Jesus, and Mary can pray for us and intercede for us as we do. So she’s a part of that. It never once says anything about worshiping Mary, and in fact it says the opposite. Your bias and ignorance are blinding you.
    I already told you several times that my statement was not a statistical statement but of my experience over the last 25 years. 99.9% of ex-Catholics cannot explain their faith, did not know what they believed before they left, or left because they didn’t want to follow some authority or rule that the church had. I have rarely if ever seen it in another way. Either way, if your next Catholic, then you prove my point perfectly.

  16. Peter says:

    You have proved nothing except that you are blinded!

    2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    By the way do you have permission from your “local ordinary” to debate a “Protestant”?

    You are so blinded that you cannot even see that you are not a “true Roman Catholic” but a member of the Vatican II sect-how sad.

    Read Romans chapters 1 through 4, and do what God tells you to do to get your sins forgiven and then flee from the sect in which you are trapped!

  17. Thanks for your comment. First, it’s not the Roman Catholic Church that I’m part of, it’s the Catholic Church. Only uninformed anti-Catholics call us that. Second, I am not blind at all. All you did was insult me and sweeping assumptions about me backed up by no facts or evidence. Everything said in the blog is true unless you want to pull out something you think is not. God bless you Peter.

  18. Peter says:

    Bryan said:

    ” We honor baseball players, people at galas, people who do humanitarian work, and more. I suppose we worship them to? You are not even being reasonable”

    Well, some people do worship these folk but I have yet to see anyone kneeling before them in prayer, kissing their feet, lighting candles around them or carrying statues of them in processions!

    Bryan said:

    “Only uninformed anti-Catholics call us that”

    I can understand why you as a Roman Catholic apologist would attempt to disassociate yourself from Rome. It can’t be easy defending Francis as he twists and turns and continuously attacks established Roman Catholic dogma!

    So are you saying that the BALTIMORE CATECHISM NO:FOUR by Thomas Kinkead is uniformed and ant-catholic? See question 118 and question 133, also page 139 “….and the title catholic belongs to the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH alone. I guess those 27 (including a cardinal, archbishops and bishops) who gave their approbations to this publication were “UNINFORMED ANTI-CATHOLICS?”

    Was Pius X (see his catechism) and the Douay Catechism uninformed and anti-Catholic as well?

    How about ‘Fr’ John Hardon page 374 of his Pocket Catholic Dictionary-I guess another uniformed anti-Catholic????

    How did I insult you? I simply quoted Holy Scripture! Does the Bible offend you?

    You also have a knack of not answering questions put to you!

    I asked if you obtained permission from your ‘local ordinary’ to debate with a ‘Protestant’ ?

    How come you ask God to bless me when your Roman Catholic Church condemns me to Hell?

  19. The point is that you can honor someone without worshipping them. That is pretty clear both biblically and in daily life. Second, I am not trying to disassociate myself from Rome. Why would I do that, and why do you think I would do that? The papal seat is in Rome and authority derives from there as well, so far from it, I was just making the point that we are the Catholic Church. That’s a fact. The Roman Rite isn’t even the first Rite of the Church. There are older. The word Roman Catholic Church was used once in the Catechism parts you gave me whereas the words “Catholic Church” (worldwide) was mentioned multiple times. The part focused on the Roman Church was because of the focus on the authority of the papacy from which all authority derives under Christ. Even the Council of Trent in its documents refers to the “Holy Roman Church” as part of the universal Catholic Church.

    I ask God to bless you because I pray for you. I care for your soul. I pray God has mercy. And as much as we disagree, I don’t see you as an enemy, but a separated brother who I pray comes home someday. For the record, the Catholic Church says we cannot know anyone is in hell or say who is and is not going to hell. So, while Christ started the Catholic Church and people be a part of it, I am not laying out any condemnations and the Church isn’t either, only calling everyone back home. God bless.
    You are very emotional my friend. Calling names. Telling people how blind they are and so on. Those are the insults I was talking about. There is no need to stoop to that. Just stick with evidence based arguments.

  20. MC says:

    Patronising and ill-informed fiction like the equation of “ex-Catholics” with “exCatholics who did not know their faith” is perfectly calculated to remind any ex- Catholics tempted to “revert”, that far too many Catholics seem totally unable to get it into their heads that one can leave the CC because one is all too well acquainted with it and its doctrines. This smug self-satisfied assumption that knowledge ensures Catholics against leaving is not even orthodox Catholic doctrine. As Christian theology, it is nonsense.

  21. MC says:

    “ Thanks for your comment. First, it’s not the Roman Catholic Church that I’m part of, it’s the Catholic Church. Only uninformed anti-Catholics call us that. ”

    Like Pope Pius XII, perhaps ?

    “ 27. Some say they are not bound by the doctrine, explained in Our Encyclical Letter of a few years ago, and based on the Sources of Revelation, which teaches that the Mystical Body of Christ and the *****Roman Catholic Church***** are one and the same thing.[6] Some reduce to a meaningless formula the necessity of belonging to the true Church in order to gain eternal salvation. Others finally belittle the reasonable character of the credibility of Christian faith.”


    My *****emphasis*****.

    Pope Pius XII can hardly be dismissed as an “uninformed anti-Catholi[c]” – least of all when writing something as authoritative as an Encyclical.

  22. Peter says:

    So you LIED when you said only Anti-Catholics use the title(s) Roman Catholic/Roman Catholicism/Roman Catholic Church! (Revelation 21 v8)-I appreciate your humble admission!

    For the record, you are either deliberately lying or you are simply misinformed, of course your church condemns heretics/schismatics and those not in communion with Rome to Hell:

    Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441.

    “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of this ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.”

    I have quoted pope Eugene in full, lest you accuse me of quoting out of context. This is an EX-CATHEDRA pronouncement. You do know what criteria must be met for a pronouncement to be ex-cathedra don’t you!

    So, unless I repent and come back to the church of Rome I am destined for Hell! Why can’t you just be more honest about it and submit to the ‘infallible’ teaching of your church. To warn someone that they are on their way to Hell is the most loving thing you could do.

    I don’t need your prayers besides the Holy Scriptures are pretty clear about whose prayers God hears (John 9 v31), even the BLIND MAN knew that.

    No I’m not emotional just Biblical-that was your very first accusation you made in your blog when you stated ex-Catholics leave the church of Rome for “EMOTIONAL REASONS”

    If quoting Scripture and pointing out your falsehoods has offended you then you need to harden up (1 Corinthians 16 v13).

    So have you got permission from your “local ordinary” or not-it’s a simple, inoffensive question and only requires a Yes or No answer? Thanks.

  23. It is not smug or an assumption, it is the norm. Of course, people who stop believing in God may leave because they don’t think ti’s true. But even they haven’t studied the evidence, and there are hardly any who have even read one book on God’s existence from beginning to end. I’m just sharing my experience with talking to ex-Catholics for decades. Most (not all) did not know their faith before they left. Or they did understand it but didn’t want to follow some certain rule they didn’t like. Or they wanted to live a contrary lifestyle. These are the reasons most people leave in my experience. Take it or leave it…

  24. Peter, I do not lie. I do not deceive. Shame on you for judging people so shallowly without knowing their motives. But then again, you are very emotional. I may be mistaken from time to time and things I say, but I never intentionally lie. After all, I could say the same thing about you, but I do not. You have spread some much slander and have born false witness against the Catholic Church so many times but I don’t assume that you are lying. I don’t assume that you’re trying to intentionally deceive everyone around you with some grand conspiracy theory. They just assume that you are ignorant and informed on the subject. You just don’t know better. I’m not going to assume that you are lying, not without good evidence.
    Why should I humble myself and admit I was wrong when you have yet to do that? I have shown you several times over the mistakes you have made, especially on Mary, leaving quoting church teaching in black and white to show that you are mistaken. But you will not admit it. Nonetheless, I will admit that some people in the Catholic Church have used Roman Catholic and the Catholic Church to mean the same thing from time to time. I will accept your quotes on this. Thank you for pointing them out to me.
    I’m familiar with the doctrine of no salvation outside the Catholic Church. And I do believe there are people in hell. Of course there are. But we don’t know who they are individually. We don’t know if they repented or not. We can never know individuals who are there. We could say that someone is fornicating outside of marriage in his on the path to hell. But we don’t know for sure that they up there because we don’t know about their final repentance or anything else. It is true that people who know that the Catholic Church is true and reject it cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven. Why would they because they are rejecting Christ. However, the Catholic Church also teaches, and you can see Vatican II on this, and the catechism of the Catholic Church, that many people don’t know better. If someone is truly ignorant of Catholicism and there is no way that they could have known about it, then there is a possibility for them to be saved. A possibility. Inasmuch as they are united to the church and teachings without knowing it.
    If you choose to reject the church of Jesus, and the sacraments, and everything Christ gave us, then yes, you are not on the road to salvation. after all, Jesus said you must In his body and drink his blood to have eternal life (Jn. 6:51-55). You cannot reject that and be saved.
    Yes, you’re very emotional, which is why you attack me as a person vehemently rather than just the arguments. I have not done the same for you.
    I will be praying for you whether you want them or not friend. I know that Jesus here’s my prayers, and I know that he will hear them for you as well. Many ex-Catholics have been where you are now before coming back to the Catholic Church. They hated the Catholic Church, they hated her doctrines, he hated everything about it, and then ended up coming back in the long run. I pray this will be you too.

  25. Peter quoted that above. See that conversation.

  26. Peter says:

    Bryan said:

    “I may be mistaken from time to time and things I say, but I never intentionally lie”

    Now hang on there! Are you not a ROMAN Catholic apologist who by definition should know his Churches teachings inside out? And yet you claimed the term ROMAN CATHOLIC is ONLY used by Anti-Catholics-so was this true or false? Well, you admitted it was false, now if you were simply a pew sitting ROMAN Catholic I would give you the benefit of doubt and I wouldn’t call you a liar but you are not-you are an APOLOGIST, so I don’t believe for one moment that you were simply mistaken.

    Likewise when you said: “I am not laying out any condemnations and the Church isn’t either.”
    Well, again is this true or false? Clearly it is false according to an infallible pronouncement by pope Eugene IV, what about the over 100 anathemas by the Council of Trent? So you as a self confessed ROMAN Catholic apologist were you simply mistaken or lying?

    You point me to Vatican II and the Catechism of the Catholic Church, both of which are heretical-there is no such thing as “invincible ignorance” either in the Scriptures or pre-Vatican II!

    If I were ever to return (which will never happen) to the ROMAN Catholic church I would be a Douay-Rheims Bible bashing, Council of Trent, Latin mass attending traditionalist-I have great respect for such ROMAN Catholics, but as for you you are a sell out, a wimpy one at that who gets offended when called a blind liar.

    Here is an excellent Bible verse for you:

    Ps 119:165 “Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them”

    No, the Lord Jesus Christ does not hear your prayers. Nor do Mary, St Peter, St Paul, Michael the Archangel, St Joseph, Moses, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, King David or St John Paul II!

    Why don’t you be a MAN for once and admit that your Church condemns me to Hell!

    I will state for the record: “I do not believe the Roman Catholic Church is the ark of salvation, I reject all of it’s seven so called sacraments and in particular I reject the sacrifice of the Mass and believe it is pure IDOLATRY to worship the wafer and wine as the Lord Jesus Christ”

    Based on that confession why don’t you be a MAN for once and admit that your Church condemns me to Hell!

  27. There is not a single Catholic apologist or Protestant Apologist or hack apologist who knows everything about their church or the side they represent. So, you must give me the benefit of the doubt just as I give it to you. You can assume all you want friend, but it’s just your personal bias speaking, and you have issues. Take me at my word or don’t, it really doesn’t matter to me.
    Lol, neither Vatican II or the Catechism are heretical. You sound like a rad-trad and admitted to wanting to be one, so it’s probably good that you are not a Catholic, not until you heal, have your heart converted in Christ, can surrender, and stop name-calling. It’s unbecoming of an adult.

    Anyway, you are not someone who is fruitful to have a discussion with, and only Jesus can convert hard hearted people who cannot even admit they are wrong and who lambasts someone who does accusing them of being dishonest. You are an unhealthy human being and a toxic person. Thus, if you comment further, your comments will be deleted. You can try our YouTube channel, but your fundamentalist and un-Christlike attitude probably won’t last long there either. In any case, thanks for the reminder to pray for you. I already have prayed for you and will continue to. God bless. Thanks for the discussion.

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